This blog gives you the latest topical news plus some informal comments on them from ShareSoc’s directors and other contributors. These are the personal comments of the authors and not necessarily the considered views of ShareSoc. The writers may hold shares in the companies mentioned. You can add your own comments on the blog posts, but note that ShareSoc reserves the right to remove or edit comments where they are inappropriate or defamatory.
It seems that the major players in the RBS Action Group have accepted the latest RBS offer. See http://files.constantcontact.com/2fe662f5101/de78446f-b327-4d5e-9eee-5fcd584c7e8c.pdf
This has, in effect, enabled RBS to bully the small individual shareholders into also accepting the settlement. I say “bully” because RBS are threatening anyone who pursues the case to risk having costs awarded against them.
So now the case will be settled. No-one will be found guilty. RBS will pay out £800 million (of shareholders’ money) to a group of its shareholders without admitting any culpability or liability. It all gets swept neatly under the carpet and no one goes to jail. It has taken 9 years for this to happen. It is not just RBS – the HBOS Reading trial took nearly ten years to be investigated and brought to court.
The key players do not come out of this well. Something is wrong with the SFO, CPS, FCA, FRC, BEIS, etc when £12 billion of RBS’ shareholders’ money raised in a rights issue can disappear so quickly.
Very, very few people in the UK have gone to jail as a result of their actions that led to the 2007/08 Financial Crisis, yet millions of people have suffered severe hardship as a result. The SFO, Crown Prosecution Service and/or BEIS should be given more resources and told to pursue problem cases much more speedily. Companies should not be allowed to hide behind expensive lawyers. The whole process of settlements where management admit no blame and shareholders pay the fines/settlement amounts mean management get off scot free and also needs a review. These steps (plus others no doubt) are required to rebuild trust in business and to tackle what Mrs May calls the “anything goes” business culture.
Cliff Weight
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Group description: | SIGnet Taunton is a new group with around 10 keen members at present, with a range of investment styles and experience. We welcome new members. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | In person meetings at a golf club near to the centre of Taunton. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | We meet on the first Monday of every month at a golf club near to the centre of Taunton, 11am until 3pm with a lunch break. |
Group description: | An online group for those who are new to investing, or have only been investing for a few years. Including topics such as: – What is a share or a bond, why and how to buy them. – Comparing funds, unit trusts, Investment trusts and exchange traded funds. – Portfolio management and diversification. – ISAs, pensions, SIPPS and how to save tax. – How terms such as PE ratio and dividend yield are used to value a share. – How to use technical analysis or charting. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Online using Zoom. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are usually held on the last Monday of the month at 7:00pm. |
Group description: | An online group for those who already have some experience in investing. Covering topics such as finding companies to invest in, financial statements and ratios, valuation / margin of safety, analysis of companies and investment trusts and exchange traded funds. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Online using Zoom. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are usually held on the last Wednesday of the month at 7:00pm. |
Group description: | The Equity Income Group welcomes investors of all levels of experience, from beginners to advanced. The focus of meetings is on dividend paying Investment Trusts, though there is also discussion around individual shares. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Meetings are held online. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are held every 6 weeks on a weekday between 7 and 8:30pm. |
Group description: | The Group welcomes investors of all levels of experience, from beginners to advanced. The focus of meetings is on all types of income generating financial instruments, from stocks through Trusts and Funds and ETFs to retail bonds. Meetings involve presentations from members, who are also expected to lead discussions from time to time, as well as discussions on what has been bought and sold since the last meeting. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Meetings are in-person in a venue in Central London. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are usually held on the last Thursday of every other month, starting with an informal lunch around 1pm followed by discussions until around 5pm. |
Group description: | A regular Signet Group looking to help members improve their investment techniques through group discussion of member’s experiences. We welcome investors with any level of experience. Group meetings generally start with:
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Meeting Type/Venue: | In person at a friendly pub close to Piccadilly Circus. We also have the option for members to join the meetings remotely if they are unable to attend in person. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are held in the evening from 6pm to 9:30pm with a 30 minute break for supper, at monthly intervals. |
Group description: | Our focus is on UK listed, high dividend yield individual stocks, although high yield investment trusts/REITS which are of interest to members will also be covered. This group is suitable for members with existing fundamental investing experience (at least 2 years), with a keen interest in discussing in some detail the underlying business, financial performance and future prospects of individual income stock ideas. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Meetings are held online. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are held every 6 weeks from 4pm to 6pm on a Monday. |
Group description: | A welcoming group open to all types of investors. Typical meeting content is to have a deep dive presentation on a topic selected by the participants and a session on buy/ sell/ key lessons learnt last month. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | In person at a friendly pub close to Piccadilly Circus |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly during the evening on the first Wednesday of the month. |
Group description: | The Enfield Signet Investment group welcomes all types of investors. Currently we are a small group, with a few seasoned investors and others that are looking to learn more about investing more generally.
Meeting content is determined by the group in advance of meetings and the agenda will typically include discussions on stock ideas and other investment themes. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The meetings are in person at a pub in Enfield EN2. We start with a quick informal lunch followed by a discussion on investment themes, updates on prior investment recommendations and other items members have submitted for the agenda. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | We meet at 12:30pm on a week day during the first week of each month. Meetings are 2-3 hours depending on the number of items on the agenda. |
Group description: | This group is for investors rather than technical traders. Although we mostly invest on the basis of Fundamental Analysis, we believe that Technical Analysis can be used to help decide the timing of entering, adding, reducing and exiting investments.
Meetings include presentations by group members on specific topics, and on recent decisions made with the input of technical analysis. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Online via Zoom |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly on the first Monday of the month.
Meetings start at 7 pm, and end between 8.30 and 9 pm. |
Group description: | Our group is a broad church that contains investors of varying experience. Our members’ backgrounds are diverse and include corporate banking, engineering, teaching and the leisure industry. We generally pick a discussion topic for every meeting, e.g. housebuilders or the defence industry, and members are invited to research and discuss different aspects or companies within that industry. We also discuss stocks and investment trusts that we have bought, sold or are interested in and the reasons behind our decisions, and try to make sense of the ever changing investment environment. Discussions are robust and challenging but we are a friendly and approachable group who welcome investors of all levels – we just ask that you contribute, at whatever level you can. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Our meetings are held in a private room at a nice pub near to South Ealing tube station (Piccadilly Line), not far from Ealing Broadway (District, Central and Elizabeth Line). |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | We meet every 2 months, usually on a Wednesday morning at 11am. |
Group description: | All levels of experience welcome. A typical meeting agenda includes: – Macro Environment – Trades: Members review existing positions and identify securities with promising TA entry patterns or setups and with suitable risk/reward. Any security, long, short, futures, options may be considered. The convener takes actual positions in trades and maintains his own detailed ledger, accurately measuring performance of individual securities and cumulative activity. Members are notified by e-mail prior to the entries or exits that are decided upon. Following each meeting an updated copy of the ledger is circulated together with the next meeting agenda. Members may wish to maintain similar ledgers of their own but there is no obligation to do so. – Technical Analysis: Techniques and systems used in trades. Members can request discussion of particular aspects of TA. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Online via Zoom |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | The first Tuesday of every month from 7 to 9pm |
Group description: | The West Sussex SIGnet Group is open to all investors irrespective of experience. Those with limited investment experience will be encouraged to participate in online training courses operated by SIGnet. The group will be principally focussed on individual stocks or investment trusts covering the UK and US markets and ranging in size from small caps to mega caps.
Meetings will typically include a number of presentations on specific stock ideas and on investing styles and themes. Meetings will also review the performance of our “portfolio” of up to ten stocks chosen by the members in a share picking competition competing against other SIGnet groups across the UK. Additionally, members will be encouraged to identify a share from their portfolios and talk about it for 3 minutes (short ideas welcome). |
Meeting Type/Venue: | We plan to meet physically every month during the day at various venues across West Sussex. During the summer months we may hold a number of evening meetings to encourage attendance from those unable to make meetings during the day. Additionally, we will hold online meetings from time to time. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings will be held on the second Monday of every month. Physical meetings will typically be from 11:30 to 15:30. Evening meetings and online meetings from 19:30 to 21:30. |
Group description: | Open to all investors / people with an interest in investing. Typical meeting will involve members talking about recent purchases, successes, failures and possible future purchases. Also with occasional visiting speakers or members making presentations on a topic of interest. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | We aim to meet on the last Tuesday of each month in a private room at a pub in Playhatch. Start time 7pm with members encouraged to meet up around 6pm for a bite to eat / drink before hand, if their diaries allow. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | 7pm on the last Tuesday of the month. Meetings likely to last about two hours but with informal ‘overspill’ before / after. |
Group description: | This group was set up as a forum to discuss companies in detail, each company is introduced by a member and discussion may last one or two hours. Membership is by invitation only and is for experienced investors. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The group meets at a venue in Waterloo, London. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are on Tuesday mornings at two month intervals. |
Group description: | This group was set up as a forum to discuss companies in detail, each company is introduced by a member and discussion may last one or two hours. Membership is by invitation only. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The group meets at a venue in Waterloo, London. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meeting on Monday mornings at two month intervals. |
Group description: | Group of investors that meets on a bi-monthly basis to discuss all things happening in the world of investing, share each other’s knowledge and give the benefit of each other’s experience. Group primarily focuses on unit trusts, open ended investment companies and investment trusts. However, all investments are up for discussion and new members are always welcome and encouraged. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Remotely via Zoom on Saturdays on a bi-monthly basis, on dates collectively agreed by all group members. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Bi-monthly. |
Group description: | This group nominally covers the whole of Scotland – although we are also open to members from wider afield. The focus of the group will be on ‘Technical Trading’ rather than Investing. Importantly, we understand that many people do both longer term investing and shorter term ‘technical trading’. Of that mix of styles this group will focus on ‘technical trading’ – so you might expect us to have conversations such as:
Swing Trading, Stop Losses and Position Sizing, Chart Patterns – Cup and Handle, Breakouts, Springs, Flags etc, Support & Resistance, Indicators, Price Targets, Positive Expectancy, Trade Management, Trading Systems, Trade Ideas and Evaluation, Trade Planning, Leading and Lagging Sectors, Leading and Lagging Participants within Sectors, Trade Journals, and the ‘Tools of the Trade’. The majority of the group have both longer term investments and carry out shorter term trades, too. They would term themselves both ‘investors’ with a longer term outlook and ‘traders’ with a shorter term outlook. The group members have broad experience in the markets – including across all asset classes and vehicles (shares – companies, trusts, ETFs, funds; spread-bets, CFDs, Options, Crypto). However, most of the group are predominantly interested in equities within the context of a portfolio. Although some members are highly experienced traders that is not true of all and experience level should not be seen as an impediment to joining. So, if you don’t know who Richard Wyckoff was, or why Fibonacci is even more relevant today than in the 11th Century – don’t worry! Every day is a ‘school day’ for us all – Mr Market makes sure of that! |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The aim is to have a mix of formats to support the requirements of all group members: – Online meetings once per month. Nominally on the last Tuesday of the month in the afternoon. The group will utilise MS Teams. – Occasional Face to Face meetings during week days to suit those members who are retired. – Meetings of opportunity: taking advantage of local investment seminars and events to meet up within the context of investment & trading. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Our aim is to meet at least once a month virtually with physical meetings when the opportunity arises. We are fortunate in Edinburgh to have many quality venues for meetings, and occasional investor events that allow ad-hoc meet-ups around the shared interest of investing & trading. |
Group description: | The Worcestershire group was established in January 2024, and is open to all SIGnet members who have an interest in profiting from, and developing their stock market experience (other asset classes qualify too!). Novices and Fund Managers are made equally welcome.
Meetings consider topical investment issues, facilitate the exchange of ideas, and are intended to provide a forum for the enjoyable sharing of areas of expertise. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Face to face meetings are held monthly. Various venues in Worcestershire are used. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are held monthly, on weekdays, typically staring at 12 Noon, and finishing at 3pm. |
Group description: | Our group members have wide ranging investment experience and work backgrounds. Discussion topics include reviewing our recent stock or collective investment buying and selling activity, plus what we are considering buying or selling and the reasons for our decisions. We also have a wider discussion on where we think opportunities might arise in the next few months and what we think needs to be avoided. Members occasionally lead discussions on specific topics such as recent events attended, articles or books of interest and sources of investment ideas and information. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | During the pandemic our meetings were held on Zoom, but we have now resumed meeting in person at a location a few miles to the west of Colchester. Most meetings will now be in person, but it is possible that occasional meetings will be held on Zoom in special circumstances. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | We meet midweek every two months. Zoom meetings run for about two hours from 10.30am and in person meetings from 11am until about 3pm, including a break for lunch. |
Group description: | This group meets to look at issues that are of interest to the group, to look at individual companies with an investors eye and collectively raise the group’s knowledge of investable companies. There is also discussion on buys and sells made by members which calls upon and builds the collective skills and understanding of the group members. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The meetings are held in Piccadilly Circus in a pub private room. The group does not meet on zoom. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | The group meets on the second Wednesday in every month from 6.30pm to 9pm. |
Group description: | The National Group is open to all members of SIGnet. It is intended primarily for new SIGnet members, who may not yet have found another suitable group to join. We aim to welcome new members and discuss their investment interests and current investment topics. Investors with all levels of experience are welcome to join. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Online |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | The National Group meets monthly, on a weekday evening. Meetings are generally from 7-8:30pm. |
Group description: | This group was formed in September 2023 and meets in-person during the evening in a London pub. The group is open to all investors – a good proportion of the initial membership are experienced investors. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | In-person meetings. Pub. Dinner and drinks. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly on the third Tuesday of the month from 6-9pm. |
Group description: | We are a small group of committed, thoughtful, active, amateur investors who are mostly retired. Our core investment philosophy has always been to look for fundamental value in companies and our inspiration has been Warren Buffett. We are generally buy and hold investors, not frequent traders.
We will look at a wide range of investments, including for example, investment trusts, OEICs and ETFs as well as companies of any size. However we do not look at the more exotic areas of investment such as options, other financial instruments or hedge funds. Our discussions range widely over the myriad of factors that may influence investments and include macroeconomics, investment psychology and political trends and from time to time a member will present a book review relevant to investing. Typically the agenda will include an update on members’ investment activity since the last meeting and a presentation on an interesting potential investment by one or more members. We are all existing or former professionals and undoubtedly it is the combined experience which always makes the meetings both interesting and challenging. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | We have face to face meetings every two months at a venue close to Waterloo Station, London. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings run from 11am to 4.30pm, usually on a Tuesday and include a lunch. |
Group description: | Group focused on active investing, primarily in small / medium cap UK equities. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Regular Zoom meetings interspersed with occasional face to face meetings and social activities in the North West. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly on Saturdays at 10am. |
Group description: | Our group covers a wide spectrum of mainly stock market investing and trading from equities – which include shares, ETF’s Investment and Unit Trusts. We normally rotate the meeting chairperson (responsible for creating, with member’s help, suitable agendas) and a meeting presenter (members take it in turns to provide a 15 to 45 minute presentation on a subject of their choice). Various investing topics of interest are regularly discussed such as software, brokers, investing categories and markets and any related topics of interest. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Meetings will be returning to in-person in a private room at a West London golf club, close to an underground station. In the meantime monthly video calls and an in-between meeting email group will continue. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | In-person meetings will be held on the second Wednesday of each month in the afternoons, following a golf club one course lunch. |
Group description: | The Options group has been meeting monthly for some 20+ years and new members who are either trading or interested in trading options are always welcome. Our members trade options predominately on both UK and USA shares, indices, currencies and commodities. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Meetings take place via video call. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are monthly, on the 4th Wednesday of each month, normally from 12:30 to 2:30 and sometimes run over. |
Group description: | This group is nominally the Edinburgh group. However, the group actually draws membership from: Edinburgh, The Lothians, The Borders, Fife and Stirlingshire.
The majority of the group are what you could called ‘investors’ with a longer term outlook rather than ‘traders’, but several have broad experience in the markets. Most of the group are predominantly interested in equities within the context of a portfolio. Some members have interests across asset classes and are interested in portfolio construction and portfolio management. Although some members are highly experienced investors that is not true of all and experience level should not be seen as an impediment to joining. The group is open to new members. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The aim is to have a mix of formats to support the requirements of all group members:
– Online meetings once per month in the evenings to suit those members who are working |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Our aim is to meet at least once a month virtually with physical meetings as frequently or more often when the opportunity arises. We are fortunate in Edinburgh to have many quality venues for meetings, and occasional investor events that allow ad-hoc meet-ups around the shared interest of investing. |
Group description: | This group is open to all levels of investor and is particularly popular because it meets after working hours in central London. The meeting usually has a presentation or group discussion on aspects of investing and also runs a Buys & Sells session which gives everyone the chance to see what the other group members are buying or selling and why. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The venue is near Victoria Station in a pub where the group also enjoy a meal from a typical pub menu. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | This group meets in the evening in London. It is a face to face group that meets every third Tuesday in the month from 6.30pm to 9pm. |
Group description: | This group is for those interested in investing in the USA. It is open to all investors with a special interest in this area and all levels of experience are welcome. A typical meeting will have a discussion on a particular market issue or a presentation by a member or external speaker on a subject of interest to the group. All members are expected to play a part in presenting and to take an active role in making the group of value to all its members. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | As a specialist group with a wide geographic spread of members, our meetings are held on zoom. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are monthly and are held on the third Tuesday in the month from 11-12.30PM. |
Group description: | A group that welcomes investors with all levels of experience. We aim to provide a friendly north-eastern welcome to anyone that wishes to join, share their knowledge of investing and benefit from others’ knowledge and experience.
The group discusses a range of investment related topics. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Currently, we’re meeting in-person at a venue in Durham. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings occur monthly, on weekday evenings from 7pm-9pm. We may vary this, according to demand from group members. |
Group description: | We hold monthly in-person meetings with possible exceptions in August and December. Discussions are generally on the topic of investment strategy and potential companies of interest. Each member is expected to make an investment-related presentation approximately once a year. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | We meet in a private room at a pub around 7 miles SW of Oxford. We usually each order a dish from the pub menu that is served during the meeting. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are in-person, monthly on the 4th Tuesday of the month at 7pm. Typical meetings last 2 to 2.5 hours. |
Group description: | The group has been successfully operating for over 20 years and currently has members with diverse investment styles. However there is sufficient in common to ensure an interesting mix of ideas and experience which provides a great sounding board for investing as well as the opportunity to enhance our investment skills.
Some members lean towards a buy and hold approach whilst others trade more frequently, some use technical analysis methods, others use fundamentals or a combination. Discussions cover companies predominantly listed on the London Stock Exchange, including small AIM stocks, but investments in other countries are sometimes included. Investment trusts, exchange traded funds, bonds and some other financial instruments are included. Economic issues as they relate to investing are discussed for those who adopt a top down approach. Additionally, experience of different investing software and information sources provides good insights into what members find works well for them. If an investment related subject is of interest to the majority of the group then it is included, such as government budget announcements, pensions and inheritance tax etc. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Pre Covid we had face to face meetings once a month in a pub for a 3 hour session just a few miles to the west of Cambridge during an evening. Covid forced a change to video conferencing for meetings. These meetings remain monthly but are split into two shorter sessions, they normally take place on the first and second Thursday of each month. From 2023 at least two meetings during the year will be face to face.
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Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly, usually on the first and second Thursday of each month from 7pm. Any face to face meetings will also be on a Thursday at 7pm. |
Group description: | The group is open to more experienced and established investors who are active traders in shares, bonds and other investment vehicles. All present members are “mature” individuals but this would not preclude younger experienced investors.
At present there is an interest within the group in AIM shares with a view to inheritance tax planning but this is not in preclusion to other interests, REITs, Investment Trusts, Property etc. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Meetings take place in person at private houses mainly in the north Leeds area. On occasion, especially in the summer, meetings may be held in members’ houses elsewhere in the general area.
At each meeting the members outline their recent activity and its relevance to their overall investment goals. Current fiscal events and economic conditions are discussed. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | The group meets each month on a working day determined at the end of the preceding meeting.
The meetings commence at 10:30 am and continue until around 1:00 to 1:30 pm. |
Group description: | A small group covering Dorset and South Hampshire.
We enjoy wide ranging discussions sharing views and knowledge on all investing types. We discuss relevant world events, sectors of interest, unit and investment trusts and individual equities. The group has been running for many years and members are all active investors. New members welcome. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Monthly meeting alternating between Zoom and Face to Face. The latter is in a local pub near the New Forest. All the meetings of recent years have taken place in the evening. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly during the evening, 7pm-9pm. |
Group description: | Meeting once a month, our group covers a variety of investment styles. We also have an active WhatsApp group and we welcome new members. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Physical meetings at a venue in Preston, Hitchin, SG4. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly on a Saturday at 10am (usually the last Saturday of the month). |
Group description: | Experienced investors who have been members many years and newer members wanting to learn about investing. Members discuss portfolio content and reasons why they have certain assets and investments. Buys and sells discussed along with interesting shares being considered along with current issues in the market of local or international influence. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Physical face to face meetings held in a central pub in Easton in Gordano. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Usually monthly to 6 weekly, mid week 12 noon to 2pm with lunch. |
Group description: | We are a relatively small group, but have a wide range of interests so always start every meeting with a discussion about world issues and the “investing environment” generally. We always discuss individual members market activity and any interesting opportunities on their watchlists. There is currently a lot of expertise in the small cap value area of the market within the group. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Our preference is for a physical meeting and a hotel in Meriden (Coventry) is the usual location, but we do have on-line meetings when weather and/or health issues make that the most suitable option. We rotate the chair and this is agreed at the previous meeting. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Our preference is to meet every 4 weeks on a Thursday evening, but the exact details are agreed at the previous meeting. |
Group description: | A small group whose primary interests are equity and Investment Trusts. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Currently meeting online using Skype. It is envisaged to have occasional meetings at member’s private houses in the future. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are held fortnightly on Tuesday mornings using Skype. |
Group description: | Most members are experienced investors. The main focus is on equity investments (single stocks or investment trusts). Other asset classes are discussed. Meetings involve presentations from members who are expected to lead discussions from time to time. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Meeting quarterly, physically in Central London. Other months (8 months per year) on Zoom. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meetings are generally held on the 3rd Wednesday of the month. The Quarterly physical meetings are from 11am-4pm (with approximately 1 hour break for lunch), the Zoom meetings (during the other 8 months) tend to last up to 2 hours (11am – 12:45pm). |
Group description: | A long-established group, however, we welcome new applications. Our meetings start at 10:15am with coffee and scones when members comment on their investment activities since the previous month. Generally, each member reports on a specific Company/IT/Fund e.t.c. This brings us to about 12:30pm when the meeting ends, and we have lunch. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | In-person at a Golf Club in Belfast. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | The group usually meets on the second Wednesday of the month, all year round, except in July and August when we have no meetings. Meetings commence at 10:15am and last 2-3 hours (including lunch). |
Group description: | We welcome anyone interested in investments regardless of their level of knowledge and experience. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Physical meeting in the Boardroom of a venue in RG9 (pre-meetings in the bar). |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Monthly – 3rd Wednesday of each month at 18:00 (except January, where the meeting will be held at lunch time). |
Group description: | We are a friendly social group welcoming investors with all levels of experience. Our membership varies between those with little or no knowledge of investing to those who live off their investing or their portfolios. We do not invest as a group so there is no money on the table, and we never discuss individual worth; we simply discuss and share investing ideas, we analyse the state of the market, individual stocks, funds, trusts, bonds etc., and we invite contributions from all group members. Guest speakers and company presentations are a regular feature, as is the SIGnet competition and also our own long-term Manchester Portfolio. We invite members to volunteer presentations from time to time on particular topics of their interest / expertise. At each meeting members are asked to share their latest or potential buying and selling activity. Our face-to-face meetings are punctuated by a lunch break, and for those with the time there is socialising and drinks afterwards. Most of all we learn from each other. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | The group meets through a combination of Zoom and face-to-face meetings at a central Manchester boardroom style venue. |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meets bi-monthly, 10am-3pm on Monday mornings, usually mid-month. |
Group description: | The Leicester Square Group welcomes investors with all levels of experience, but all members are expected to contribute to our discussions. We discuss/analyse individual stocks, market trends and investment topics. Guest speakers are sometimes invited to address the group. At each meeting all members are asked to inform the group of what stocks or collective investments they’ve been buying or selling, or are considering buying or selling. A friendly and supportive discussion is encouraged. The meeting is punctuated by a lunch break, providing an opportunity to socialise. After the meeting, members may stay on for drinks and to socialise further. |
Meeting Type/Venue: | Physical meetings at a central London venue |
Meeting Frequency/Timing: | Meets bi-monthly, 11am-4pm on a weekday |
If it’s really true that the small shareholders are forced to settle, it will be a tragedy for all of us. When we buy shares in a company, and when we choose not to dispose of an existing holding, we do so on the basis of the information issued to the market by that firm’s directors. If we cannot rely on such representations, the cost of capital will rise and such money may become unavailable. One of the foundation stones of capitalism is destroyed.
When RBS raised fresh capital in its rights issue it did so on the basis of information that was materially incomplete and inaccurate. That’s fraud. It’s no different than Quindell, Globo and a shameful list of AIM-listed Chinese companies. If we’re wondering why nothing has been done about those smaller companies, by the way, I suspect it’s because it would be impossible to take robust action against their directors without also taking aim at Fred the Shred and his cronies. And that would be embarrassing for a number of current and past senior figures in government, the Bank of England, the FSA/FCA…
If the civil claim is heard, I’m pretty sure evidence would be placed in the public domain that would make it impossible for the FCA not to prosecute. We couldn’t possibly have that, which is why the pressure is being ramped up on the little guys to live with their losses. But it’s crucial to remember what will be lost if we don’t follow the logical path that leads to jailing the culprits. If RBS is forced to compensate misled shareholders and the victims of its GRG and IRHP scams and pays the US Department of Justice a big fine for its misdeeds in relation to mortgage-backed securities, its balance sheet will be weakened. Throw in a painful Brexit or the long-overdue Chinese banking crisis and the still-wounded Scottish bank will need recapitalisation. Private and institutional shareholders won’t put their hands in their pockets, because they will expect the prospectus to be misleading and will fear that the fresh money will again be frittered away on what’s euphemistically known as ‘conduct costs’ (fines and compensation for bankers’ criminality). Taxpayers will block government from saving the bank because they rightly perceive that bankers haven’t yet learned the lessons of the last crisis. RBS will finally, and justly, die. Which will be a good thing, in the long run – but could cause a lot of collateral damage to the real economy, including employees and shareholders, in the meantime.
The best outcome for all but the bankers is therefore that this case proceeds. Let’s hope that still happens.
There seems to be some confounding of the merits of accepting the RBS offer (or forcing them to fight in court) and the problems of inaction by the regulatory authorities and the fact that the current shareholders will be liable for the settlement. Let’s take these three issues separately:
1. The decision by the RBoS Shareholders Action Group to accept the offer of 82p per share looks sensible to me for a number of reasons. Most of them are given in the letter to shareholders from the Action Group. And it would be perverse for them to reject the views of their legal advisors on the matter. If they ignored that advice there would be a substantial risk of not achieving any compensation for investors- or even worse. Apart from the fact that the result of any legal action is uncertain in such complex cases (they tend to be decided on technicalities rather than simple moral principles as perceived by investors), even if won the judgement on liability quantum would be even more uncertain. And if a settlement offer is made but rejected that is more than the final judgement then the costs could not be recovered and RBS’s costs might be deducted (at least I think that’s correct – perhaps any lawyers reading this could advise). You also have to bear in mind the stance of the litigation funders who were involved in this case. Their support would be necessary to continue the case, which clearly they would not give based on the legal advice. So the outcome was very much to be expected as this is the way most such cases tend to be concluded. But in effect RBS have conceded defeat so the moral victory is certainly that of the investors.
2. It is certainly very reprehensible that the SFO, FCA and other regulatory authorities have been so lax in pursuing the issues that arose in this case. There should have been a much more vigorous examination of the defects in accounting statements that enabled RBS to raise money based on figures that were extremely dubious. And regrettably it is easy for directors in the UK to avoid criminal liability – there is no concept of “fraud on the market” as there is in the USA for example. One also has to bear in mind that proving criminal liability is a very different matter to proving civil liability in court. The latter is much less onerous than the former. This blog format is too brief to cover all these issues in full – one could write a whole book on the subject, but in essence the legal framework of companies in the UK does need substantial reform to fix these ills.
3. Yes it is unfortunate that the current shareholders (who own the RBS company), will effectively be compensating the former shareholders – they could be the same people of course. And the Government (i.e. the public purse) who were so kind to bail out RBS back in 2008 will also be contributing. Some investors take a different view on this, but I have always considered it not unreasonable to pursue companies and directors via such legal cases. It does bring out into the open the failings of companies and their directors, and ensures they are discouraged in future. Unfortunately one of the main beneficiaries of this action will be the lawyers for both sides whose total fees will be well over £100 million – the enormous costs of pursuing such civil actions also needs reform. Having been involved in the early years in the RBoS Shareholders Action Group I think they should be complimented on bringing this affair to a reasonable conclusion. Few people understand the effort involved in progressing such complex cases where there are so many litigants with an interest in the matter. It requires enormous persistence to have got this far.
Good points, Roger. Just on the last one, it is worth noting that the treasury, via UKFI owns 73% of RBS, So, once again, it is primarily the taxpayer who will suffer for the results of action by former management. Meanwhile, “Fred the shred” continues to enjoy his £300,000+ p.a. RBS pension..
Indeed. Outrageous that the rascals are able to buy their way out of it with other peoples money, and even more so that this is taxpayer money. UKFI has been silent on this matter.
I agree there’s conflation, but I think it’s probably inevitable, and no bad thing.
In a perfect world, directors who issue misleading or materially deficient prospectuses would be prosecuted and compensation would flow first from their personal resources and only second from the firms they direct.
In an imperfect world, there are a lot of people looking at the RBS rights issue and wondering how they can prevent something similar happening again. If the civil claim proceeds to its conclusion it is likely that sufficient evidence will emerge that not even the weak and captured FCA could fail to prosecute Fred and his pals.
Yes, I fully understand that the litigation funders call the shots and that RBS has taken pains to incur such vast legal costs that the jeopardy involved in fighting on past a halfway sensible part 36 offer would be prohibitive for anyone who was in this for the money, as opposed to the principle. But that doesn’t stop me hoping that a ‘white knight’ with deep pockets will rock up at the 11th hour and buy out the litigation funder and those who want to settle, who then pursues this to the end.
The FCA could have pursued action over the false prospectus years ago if they had a mind to do so. They have very strong powers in that regard, but simply failed to act, perhaps because that would have revealed the incompetence of the FSA/FCA in approving the prospectus in the first place. Likewise the Government, who control the FCA, were not in a mind to do so no doubt because of their financial interest in RBS and the general embarrassment they would face over the events of 2008. I fear that any civil court result would not affect that position and given the length of time now since the events took place, the chance of any action is now very low.
I agree with you about the FSA/FCA; FSMA s397 was written for cases such as this and would likely have resulted in jail sentences had there been prosecutions.
My view differs from yours in that I believe that the civil case would have put evidence in the public domain that would have resulted in such pressure being placed on the FCA that it would have prosecuted the directors. Sadly, if there’s a settlement, we will never know who’s right.
I completely agree with Roger’s comments on the defects of the civil litigation process. I have spent much of my professional life fighting banks and insurers on behalf of ordinary citizens in cases just like the RBS litigation. Regrettably, we have reached a point where a well funded defendants can take ridiculous points and run them at great expense, effectively winning by outspending their opponents. Then the matter is settled on terms that the settlement, even the existence of the settlement, is secret. The judges go along with this.
Nobody seems interested in putting this right. The politicians speak of a “compensation culture” being undesirable, when it should be obvious that in a civilised and law abiding society unlawful conduct causing damage ought to attract compensation from the wrongdoer.
I shall shortly retire after nearly 50 years in the law. I am sorry that a nation that gave so much law to the world should have come to this point.
Robert Morfee
Cliff’s note got published as a letter in the Financial Times today.
This is Wednesday’s most read letter! And after the letter there are 4 interesting comments so far. Please add your comments there as well as on the ShareSoc blog if you want them to have a very wide audience.